Celebrity Names Blog

Charles, And Other Boy's Names on Girls

Charles, And Other Boy's Names on Girls
Elisabeth Shue Named Her Daughter Agnes Charles (Bauer-Griffin)

Poring through the new entries on Namipedia this morning, we stumbled over a startling user-submitted name: Charles. Really? we thought. Seriously? 

Because Charles was submitted as a girl's name. 

The more we thought about it, the more it made sense. Girl's names for boys are one of the hottest name trends. Several celebrities have given their little girls traditionally boy names. Brooke Shields chose Rowan, Rebecca Romijn chose Charlie, Rebecca Gayheart chose Billie, and Denise Richards chose Sam.

They may be cute, but boy's names on girls are also controversial. It can be hard on a boy to have a name associated with girls, so parents of boys are protective of their boyish favorites. They can resent those parents of girls who are trying to steal Ryan from them.  The Name Lady called the problem a "turf war." But more optimistically, she noted that equal-opportunity names like Skyler suggest "we just might learn to share, after all." 

On the flip-side of sharing names equally between genders, we have opting out of the turf war all together. We recently wrote about Storm as the name chosen by the Canadian parents who are opting to keep their child's gender a secret. But the strong response to that story suggests that gender remains a source of cultural tension. 

So is the female Charles just fueling this fire? Not so fast. According to the Namipedia entry, Charles is "used by women as a first name or middle name for their daughters, particularly if their fathers or grandfathers were named Charles or if their maiden name was Charles." It's a form of honoring, and we see it in Hollywood too:Elisabeth Shue named her daughter Agnes Charles, in honor of her late father in law.

As the Name Lady told a reader who wanted her daughter's name to honor her brother Jacob, a boyish middle name on a girl can even be called "a traditional choice ... because of the old custom of using a mother's surname as a middle name for her children."

Do you like Charles as a girl's name? Do you like boy's names on girls? Are you more okay with a boy's name on a girl if it's used as a middle name? Did you use a boy's name on a girl? Did you honor a male relative in a girl's name? Tell us below.


--L.R.

Comments

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June 28, 2011 8:00 PM
By Annoyed (not verified)

As a mom of all boys I am so annoyed when girl moms "steal" our good boy names for their baby girls! I know we don't own the names, but still! Can't we have some masculine names that are left alone?? You don't see boy moms taking girly names for their sons. And, once you've heard it used as a girl name, it just seems to lose some of its masculinity.

I'm fine with Charlie for a girl. Or Charles for a middle name. But as a first name? No.

June 28, 2011 8:35 PM
By Anonymous (not verified)

My great-aunt was named Mary Charles, after her father. She would have been in her mid-nineties this year. She was always called by both names.

June 29, 2011 12:44 AM
By Anonymous (not verified)

My great-great-grandmother's sister was named Charles Jasper. After six kid, her parents got tired of waiting for a boy to use their family names on. Their next kid was a boy.

June 29, 2011 7:09 AM
By Missy (not verified)

I think it's silly and causes confusion. Did she have a sex change? Is this the right person? Should we accept a credit card without photo I D from Charles?

There is a reason this is illegal in Germany!

June 29, 2011 9:22 AM
By CC&B's Mom (not verified)

I think a better question is why we are so much more comfortable with giving girls "masculine" names than we are giving boys "feminine" names?

If a boy named Charles met a girl named Charles, I'm pretty sure that he would still be just as boyish and masculine as he was before he met her.

Is it truly that important to know a person's gender upon seeing their name?

June 29, 2011 10:35 AM
By Sallyo (not verified)

I don't have any problem with unisex names like Ashton, and some names like (say) Jade would work equally well for boys or girls. However, if there is a set feminine form (or forms) then I can't see the point of not using them. A Georgina, Georgette, Georgiana, Georia or Georgie can honour an ancetral George perfectly well, and a Patricia, Patrice, Pattie, Patsy etc can honour a Patrick. Maybe the problem some people have with feminine forms is the -a or -ie or -y ending many of them have, since MOST male names are shorter than the feminine forms.
Charles vs Charlotte, Charlie, Charlene
Paul vs Pauline, Paulette, Pauletta, Paulina
James vs Jamie, Jamesina
Alan vs Alanna, Alana

June 29, 2011 1:19 PM
By Stephanie (not verified)

I feel like Charles is taking it too far. Charlotte, who you call Charlie, is different. That is cute. I think if you like the nickname Charlie, go with Charlotte and leave Charles to the poor boys out there who desperately need to retain some names as their own. Keep in mind, I have 2 girls, so no children-gender bias here, but there are some names that are clearly male to me- Charles is one of them. Some others- Robert, Brian, Thomas, Frederick, Patrick, Jared, Bryant, Gareth, Anthony, William, Henry, Logan, James, Christopher, Jack, Jackson, Michael, Ronan, Eric, Edward, Edmund, Alfred, Alphonse, the list goes on and on, these are the ones I could think of off the top of my head- these are names that should just not be put on girls as first names no matter what. Middle names to honor somebody, I could see, however.

June 29, 2011 1:51 PM
By mk (not verified)

I have no problem with it. I don't think one gender can "steal" another gender's name. There's nothing stopping a boy being named Elizabeth or whatever, and I would have no issue with that. I think more people should be comfortable with giving their son a "feminine" name just like people seem to be with girls and "masculine" names. We are just used to girls with "boy" names because historically that is more common:
girls given masculine names because a son was wanted.
married women formally called by their husband's name (Mrs. Charles Smith)
Catholic nuns were known by a chosen male saint name (Sister Mary Charles, Sister Mary Joseph)

June 29, 2011 2:26 PM
By Mom (not verified)

I have no problem with a parent giving their daughter a name reserved for boys, or vice versa. Naming a child is a personal choice for the parents to make.

Personally, I have three children (1 girl & 2 boys) who have names that could go either way. We named our children for us and them, not for anybody else. So, go for it. Name your children what you think is best!

June 29, 2011 2:30 PM
By Meg Bartosovsky (not verified)

I am the reader who submitted Charles as a female name...I am so excited that it, and my statement regarding its usage as an nod to a male family member or a former last name, made it into this article!! How very exciting for me!! :D

My grandfather was Charles Austin and he was very influential in my life. My brother is Samuel Austin, but I'm not a fan of 'Austin' really, and so I wondered how my mom might have tied him in if my brother had been a girl. A little research showed that it's becoming very slightly more common for girls!

I like it a lot...I think it is distinguished and yet has a cadence that makes it appropriate for a girl...it isn't brutish or overly masculine. With a sound not far from a more typical 'Charlene', I don't think it's awkward or anything, particularly if it's a middle name. I think that it also sort of adds a strength to an otherwise frilly girly name, as in (from the website featured in the entry) Vivien Charles, without losing any of the romance.

June 29, 2011 8:46 PM
By Ruby (not verified)

Boy names on girls isn't my style, and I'm opposed to it in theory, but when I meet a mother with a little girl with a boy name, I respectfully ask how she chose the name, and then I do not gossip about it after wards. I can tell that the mother loves her daughter, and that's what matters most.

June 29, 2011 9:58 PM
By Juli (not verified)

There's nothing new in this: it was common in some parts of medieval and Renaissance England to give girls common men's names like Alan or Dennis. Same with surnames as given names; that came into fashion in England in the late 16th century.

June 29, 2011 10:11 PM
By CC&B's Mom (not verified)

just saw a story today in my local paper about two sisters who are high school track athletes - one is named Wesley and one is named Ryen

thought it went right along with this post!

June 30, 2011 1:10 AM
By Anonymous (not verified)

It isn't just Catholic nuns who use Mary MaleName. In Quebec (and possibly other French-speaking places, but I don't have first-hand knowledge of that), it's quite common for females to have names like Marie-Pierre, Marie-Claude, and Marie-Paul. However, it's also completely acceptable for boys to be given names like Jean-Marie or Paul-Marie.

June 30, 2011 7:28 AM
By Anonymous (not verified)

When I was in high school I knew a few boys with what I would have considered girls name. Such as Shelly, Stacy, and Shannon. Back then I thought it was odd. But, now that I am an adult and a Mom I dont think its so odd. Though Charles for a girl would not be my choice. I dont judge anyone who chooses to do that.

June 30, 2011 8:54 AM
By HiLary (not verified)

I've always wanted to use the name David or Davi for a girl's middle name. (honoring a family member). I just can't get on board with Davida, and I feel the same way about a lot of the other female versions of names: Charlene, Georgina, Pauline, Patricia, etc. They all sound so outdated. Giving your daughter a solid male middle name is more fresh.

July 3, 2011 2:47 AM
By moonlady (not verified)

I don't see what's wrong with girls using traditionally male names. I wonder, when women started wearing pants, did people get offended at the thought of women taking over a part of fashion that was formerly restricted to men?

I've known men named Kelly, Kerry, and Lynn, and it didn't seem to damage them. I think masculinity isn't quite so fragile that we need to protect it like it might evaporate in the next second.

July 5, 2011 2:46 PM
By Anonymous (not verified)

HiLary,

Our 2 year old daughter's middle name is Davie after my grandfather, whose name was David. Her first name is squarely feminine (Alice). I fall in the camp of not naming girls with boy names, but feel that a name can be updated in this way and not present the same issues.

Yay for Davie! :)

July 5, 2011 3:08 PM
By Jamie Redgate (not verified)

I'm a female Jamie, a name that isn't unheard of on girls, but it still causes me countless problems.

July 5, 2011 3:34 PM
By Kira (not verified)

I would never use a "boyish" name on a girl. Although in theory, I approve of a culture where gender doesn't affect life quality and opportunities offered, it bugs the living ... out of me when parents give masculine names to their girls. As a mom of three boys and a girl, I do feel protective of the "masculinity" of their names. Our culture, particularly school culture, is hard on boys who are perceived as less masuculine - it shouldn't be, but it is - and a double standard exists. This has all been said before, but giving a girl a boys' name is supposed to be edgy and cool - but it ruins the name for boys. That's just how our culture is - and it's a shame - but I feel so sorry for the girls who receive these names.

July 5, 2011 10:41 PM
By Anonymous (not verified)

I don't think "Charles" will ever be considered a girl name simply because of the long history of the name for boys. But then, I'd like to see the name Beverley reclaimed for boys.

July 7, 2011 12:40 AM
By Randi Marie (not verified)

My name is Randi, and although I have to repeat my name several times and then spell it when first meeting someone, I absolutely love having a traditionally "boy" name. It doesn't make me one bit masculine, and I have always gotten a million compliments on it. My favorite part is that there are VERY few girls out there with my name, so in grade school, and even now in graduate school, I've never had to add on my last initial. I always kinda felt sorry for the Jessica, Brittany, Crystal, Courtney, Megan, etc. because no one could ever keep them straight! I even have a boy cousin named Randy, which has always made it a lot of fun to mess with guests at family gatherings! One day, I hope to name my daughter a so-called "boy" name, just to keep the tradition going!

July 13, 2011 5:26 PM
By Monica (not verified)

I think Boy names for girls first names is just fine. Mainly because they are only masculine if you make them that way, or vise verse. Case in Point, men names Ashley, Dana, and of course there is the ever masculine John Wayne's real first name was Marion. Or how in the olden days where kids all had the same name boy or girl like Joseph and Josephine. So we can not be condemned for doing something that our ancestors did themselves.

July 23, 2011 10:40 PM
By Abby (not verified)

My sister's name is Danica and she has always been known as Dani. She is beautiful and the contrast of a boyish name and a beautiful girl was always appealing to me. I named my little girl Ryan and just love it for her. She likes it and enjoys the fact that she has a memorable name. I would never dream of naming a boy with a feminine name but think there is something fabulous and powerful about a girl with a boyish name.

September 1, 2012 10:38 AM
By Anonymous (not verified)

I know some one who named all of thier boys girl names. One is named Stacey..when he got married the sign outside said
Congrats Stacey and Michaela.

December 16, 2012 11:12 AM
By mother of a little girl named Davie (not verified)

i am a mother of a little girl with a boy name and i love it. People should judge people names so quick. David is a family name. but my sister already named her son after my dad and i am not a fan of people having the same name in a family. so when my dad pasted in 2011 i decided i was naming my daughter after him. So now we have our Davie baby. She fits the name so well i love it! now we are having our 3rd baby and i am looking at names like Bobbi and Stevie.

December 28, 2012 3:56 PM
By Zoe Rhys (not verified)

I don't have a problem with "boy" names on girls. I've met girls named Ryan, Evan and Connor. They are all great people and the more I got to know them; I forget that their name is typically given on men. The only thing I don't agree on is the unnecessary spelling. Like Ryan becoming Ryann or any C name becoming a K name.

People forget that there are men out there named Shannon, Rhys/Reese/Reece, Rene, Kristen/Kris, Sasha, Lindsey, and so forth.

To me, the person makes the name.

February 8, 2013 5:05 AM
By Anonymous (not verified)

In addition to what is cited by the article: of it being a current trend to name girls with names usually associated with boys, of honoring a favorite person celebrity or male relative, & of charles possibly being a girls middle name if it was her mother's maiden last name, i would like to point out a few things:

Charles has just as many if not more female name variants as male ones, i have seen the girls names Kate, Katie, Katya, Katherine, Ekaterina, Chelsea, Carol, Caroline, Carolina, Carly, Carlina, Carlita, Clarissa, Cheryl, Cathy/Kathy, Charlotte, and others as being related to or derived from Charles in baby name books, first name/name origin books or on name origin websites. It is astounding just how far back Charles in some form or other goes and how many names male names and female names alike can be connected to it either directly or indirectly.

It is not a new Idea to name girls Charles, it is a longstanding practice in at least some parts of the United States dating back 50-100 years or more. I was born in 1984 in pennsylvania and even when I was growing up it was a practice that had been on-going for several generations at least and no one could remember when it got started or if it had always occaisionally happened.

In some families, especially families with a strong emphasis on masculine traits and qualities, and especially alot of german, irish, scottish, and welsh families it has been a practice for years to name girls with a male or masculine name. Usually it is as a girl's middle name or extra first or extra middle name, or to honor a relative, or in a changed/altered or feminized form like Cheryl or Charli or Carly or Charlia or Charlesia(just saw that one online today), but it is not totally unheard of that a girl will receive a masculine name as her first name.

Some mothers and families like the strength associated with certain masculine names and want their daughters to be strong or resilient and choose a male name because of how it is defined or qualities associated with it.

Also, in the past, so many children did not make it past infancy much less adulthood, and giving a child a masculine or strong name was seen as hopefully a way to help them survive or help them be a fighter, etcetera.

Also, you always have people who want to be rebellious and name their daughter with a boy's name just because they can, and you have people who think "a name is a name is a name" and that it shouldn't matter if it is a boy or girls name.

Then there are people who like a name so much that no matter what gender the child ends up being born as, they have that name because the parent already decided that will be the name.

Then, sadly in my opinion, are the people who wanted a boy and so chose a boy's name, and when the baby is born and its a girl, they still give the child a boy's name out of pure spite and don't properly love the child at all really, and are so mad that the child was born female that they deliberately give them a boy's name knowing fully what bullying they will go through because of it just to try to spite the child and the world/universe, and the leave the child on their own to deal with the bullying, sometimes even encourage it and exacerbate it. The child is left to fend for themselves at school and in life overall. I met several people when I was growing up that had this happen to them. Some of them changed their names as soon as they could and tried to get over the pain or stigma, some of them also moved away to avoid anyone who knew them with their old name. Also, some of them kept their boy's name and considered it a badge of honor that they had made it through to be well-adjusted successful people despite what they had to go through.

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Anyway back to Charles. When I was in Elementary School while most of the name books listed Charles as a male name, Some of them actually listed Charles as a neutral name or as both a Masculine & a Feminine name.

Some definitions of Charles have referred to terms such as fine, kingly, fine-boned, richly or finely or elaborately dressed, delicate, & effeminate to describe the name. Also I have no idea if it is true or not but in elementary school I was also told by an adult seeing us looking at the name book that in france there was a trend at the time for girls to be named Charles and that because of all the kings and nobility there that had been named Charles and their president that had been named Charles that people liked that name almost to an extreme and that they would name either a girl or a boy as Charles and no one minded really because it had gotten so popular that it was viewed as a name that could be given to either a girl or a boy freely.

Most of the name books I saw then just defined Charles by one word man or by the trait manly or masculine. I was told that some people named girls charles or a variant of it because they wanted their daughter to be strong and not dainty or frilly.

Quite Surprisingly, I was told that on the converse some people named girls Charles because they did want their girls to be very feminine or they wanted them to be feminine yet strong.

Some of the name books then listed Charles as very masculine or manly if given to a boy and also as just the opposite as very effeminate/girly/feminine if given to a girl, two totally different definitions depending on whether it was being considered as a boys or as a girls name(again due to at the time definitions for Charles usually only listed the word man and that was it and that could be taken anyway a consumer or a particular editor/publisher felt like it, as man meaning manly, as man meaning person, as why does it only mean that? it can't just mean that, let's come up with something...). I was told some parents named girls Charles hoping for both a very feminine girl and a very strong one.

The books listed Charles as Primarily a Male/Masculine name with some use as a Feminine name starting to appear here in the U.S., They also still listed several female names to use that were listed as related names or alternative suggestions like Charlotte, Charlene, or Catherine that I didn't discover basically evolved from Charles until much later.

The official Substitute listed in most of those books particularly the older ones was the girls name Cheryl(which coincidentally was listed as also being appropriate still for boys and still masculine enough to be a boys name despite primarily being a girls name), which was listed as not a variant or related word or a nick name or pet form like all the others but as the Feminine form of the name Charles, and all defininitions for the name Cheryl were repeats of the definition for Charles or references that said "see Charles"

what was strange was today online a listing I saw for the name Cheryl referred to the french word "cherie", which I was taught in school for years is a popular misconception and mistake and completely untrue, that while spelled similiarly the two words were different with totally diferent meanings and origins

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There is a definite family history of the use of the name Charles in my family, My First Name is Charles, My Mother's First Name is Cheryl, One of my Great-Grand Fathers' First Name was Charles, etcetera on back through my family tree.

It was interesting to learn online today that in several slavic, baltic, and other countries a form of the name Charles became the term that meant "king" for a significant portion of history because of Charlemagne's popularity. It was also astonishing because I thought Charles was a German, French, & English name, yet one website had it or a variant listed as a popular name in nearly all of europe and many other countries/languages around the world.

In the name records for this country Charles is listed in the top 5 or 10 from the mid/late 1800s clear up until the 1930s or 1950s and still in 1984 when i was born was #33 most popular after over a hundred years of records being kept in the U.S.

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Personally I find it strange girls have to appropriate clothing names and other things from boys when they have so many more choices and variety already of their own. I definitely don't get why almost every girl i ever met in high school or college had to have a t-shirt or sweatshirt from their current boyfriend that they usually say is "borrowed" but even when they say it you can tell it is theirs now permanently forever and they are never giving it back despite what they say. Sometimes I do still find it strange when I meet a girl with a traditionally boy's name.

But Overall to me a name is a name, and anyone who wants to use a name should be able to without being judged or their child the name is given to being judged just because it is "supposed" to be belong to a certain gender.

What is extremely laughable is some of the names we are taught belong to one gender actually were a name for the other gender to begin with once you research the history of the name. language changes along with everything else and people need to learn to get along and some people need to learn to stop being so judgemental over everything under the sun and get over themselves and just mind their own business and not say anything if they don't have anything nice to say.

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It is a good thing with all these people having a boys name and being a girl or having a girls name and being boy that titles aren't in contemporary use much anymore.

because just figuring out whether to call someone miss or mrs. was confusing at times,then came the title/term Ms. pronounced as Mizz that was supposed to be a catchall term for any woman if you didn't know a persons title and still needed to address them and a polite way not to have to ask their marital status just to know what title to use. However that title also meant other things, that title was used by some people in place of the title miss, historically that title is a form of the term misses as prior abbreviation and as a shortened abbreviation both, and that title was often used by divorced or widowed women who didn't want to use mrs still and didnt want to return to using miss.

that was all confusing enough. then you have people who get offended for calling them a lady or for being polite and saying mam or just for trying to be nice and hold a door open because it is raining and you see them running to get out of the rain and then have to endure the woman screaming at the top of their lungs that you(a 10-12yrd old kid @ the time) are nothing but a lousy worthless male chauvinistic pig for having the courtesy to do what you were taught by your mother to do and hold a door open for someone, and now this women is swearing at you and yelling like you did the worst thing in the world just because you were being nice.

add to all that women with mens names and men with women's names and it does get very confusing.

so i can understand some people being up-in-arms about charles and other masculine names being used for girls and vice-versa.

February 8, 2013 5:20 AM
By Anonymous (not verified)

Alot of people have a problem with so many feminine names being a traditional male name with either the spelling changed, letters taken away(almost never occurs), or certain suffixes being added to "make" the name feminine instead. It drives some people into such a rage you no longer want to be in the same country as they are because it looks like they want to kill someone they are that angry. Its scary.

I thought Ashton was a boys name because of mr. kutcher until a few years after he came to fame I saw a girl with the name Ashton on a different mtv tv show when I was changing channels.

Jade I thought was a girl's name, but when I looked it up it was actually both though much more frequently used as a boy's name in Asia. I read an article years ago online that there was backlash when the mortal kombat video game series created a female characther with the name Jade because so many people apparantly considered that a male name and wanted it left that way.

One of my Grandmothers was named Georgia. Funnily Enough, I think I remember reading an article once that purported that George itself may have originally been a female name that later became a male name and has just been associated as being a male name so long that no one realized it was originally a female name and that there was no need for the other forms of the name.

What many people don't realize is honoring goes both ways.

I've heard of a Patrick being so named to honor a Patricia in the family for example.

February 8, 2013 5:38 AM
By Anonymous (not verified)

Reply to CC&B's Mom:

Unfortunately the answer to why we are more comfortable with girls with masculine names is because there is a gigantic stigma for the other way around for some reason.

Girls generally nowdays can wear whatever they feel like, girls clothes, boys clothes, or girls clothes that were designed to be like boys clothes to take advantage of the trend of girls wearing boys clothing.

it doesn't usually work the other way around. when word first got out that some NFL players wore Nylons under their uniforms during cold weather games for warmth or for better circulation, people all around the united states were absolutely hysterically livid about it.

What is very hilarious about this gender bias is that the act of putting on clothing is properly refered to as dressing or as "getting dressed", and not only that, but tights, heeled shoes in general, and even high-highed shoes were first mens clothing items that were later appropriated by women long after they were originally introduced.

clear up into the 1900s in the united states and england, boys often wore what amounted to dresses, because boys and girls wore the exact same clothing until a certain age when boys were "breeched" as it was called or basically put into pants for the first time.

some scottish men to this day wear kilts, which i found out in high school is just a different name for a skirt.

yet now in the u.s. if a boy wants to wear a blouse or a skirt or a dress or nylons or heeled shoes much less high heeled shoes platforms wedges etcetera...practically the whole country goes in an uproar.

but the same people think its perfectly fine for a woman to wear a suit tuxedo tie loafers blazer and what not that at one time were considered men's only clothing.

They can't even use the excuse that its related to a gender or sexual issue because that is hogwash.

Clothing is clothing point blank, and unless it blatantly doesn't fit a person because of being far too loose or too tight to where it hurts the person by cutting off their circulation or so loose it poses too much of a danger of getting caught in something and causing bodily harm to the person, then no one else should care what the other person is wearing.

There are so many people now who choose not to wear clothes at all any time they won't get arrested for it and some people don't even care about that, and so many people who wear pants so low that they constantly trip and nearly hurt themselves and can't walk properly, yet instead of worrying about that people usually totally ignore those potential concerns only to get so mad its scary sometimes at any male who should ever want to wear something that is considered a "women's" garmant.

February 8, 2013 5:45 AM
By Anonymous (not verified)

reply to stephanie:

I can see that argument to a point about leaving some names male. because sadly it isnt just some people on shoes like criminal minds and other crime shows who will hurt not just any boy with any perceived feminity or a female name if they get a chance, but they will even hurt their own male children if they find out someone else has given a girl that name because now they think in some warped way that there is something wrong with their child or that their child is feminine because some girl shares the same name, and they get irate about it and extremely abusive.

if it would save some of the abuse going on in the country, i could see your point for that reason about leaving some names strictly male.

howevere, I also think that people in that frame of mind will eventually find any possible excuse they can in most cases to become that abusive to other people and that violent and will deteriorate anyway, so there is really little point in keeping some names only male.

February 8, 2013 6:04 AM
By Anonymous (not verified)

One time everyone in my family in the house at the time kept saying goodnight to each other, then even after everyone had said it once kept saying it to each other, it was comforting yet slightly irritating because i was tired and wanted to fall asleep and couldnt with everyone talking and everyone expecting me to answer, plus it reminded me of the old television show called the waltons, so finally i told one of my sisters "good night, john boy" knowing that would put a stop to it because she would recognize the line and then we could all go to sleep. It worked, but of course she also realized it was bothering me which meant she had to pick back at me over it. so she said "good night, elizabeth". that being another line from the show, i didn't think anything of it and finally went to sleep.

My sister didnt forget about it, ever since I have been stuck with the nickname Elizabeth because of that night, especially once my sister noticed it bothered our father, so now just because of that she has to say it to me at least once anytime he comes to visit or we're all together somewhere.

It bothers me when sometimes she repeats it over and over and won't stop, but the name itself doesn't bother me being called that, its just a name, plus it reminds me of shows i watched growing up like the waltons or little house on the prarie.

I used to think it was strange when married women weren't just called mr & mrs then the husbands name or mrs then the husbands last name or mrs their first name and the husbands last name but just called mrs then both the husbands first name and the husbands last name when referring just to them. it makes no sense, because to me its like they no longer exist at all and the husband is now both people or both husband and wife or both male and female or two people at once or two in one person and it confuses me thoroughly to even try to understand why anyone would say mrs then both the husbands first and last name when only adressing the wife.

until one time when i was in college when a husband was formally addressed as mr. then both the wife's first and last name because the person addressing him only knew the wife's first name and either the wife retained her maiden name or he only new her maiden name i forget which, but he didnt know the man's first or last name so he called him mr then both the wife's first name and wife's maiden name

then it made sense somewhat and it was no longer strange to me because at least now i could see that at least in some rare circumstances it also went the other direction where the husband was called by the wife's name.

Later on in college I also learned that legally a married couple is often considered as an individual much the same as a corporation is usually treated as an individual.

that helped it make sense in some ways and made it more confusing in others, because how can a couple be only one person when there is still two of them? and if they are really one person then wouldn't they also have to have the same first name in addition to having a shared last name? then how would that work with two individuals both being called the same name?

February 8, 2013 9:18 AM
By Anonymous (not verified)

reply to moonlady:

Sadly, when women started wearing pants, yes lots of people got offended, surprisingly both men and women were offended almost equally from what i've been told and taught.

women were offended because some women actually liked wearing dresses and being girly and whatnot alot and were afraid they would have to start wearing pants or that their lifestyles would change too much or go away entirely. Much of what were the older generations at the time thought it was improper, uncivil, too racy, etcetera.

Other women who wanted to wear pants at least some of the time of course were probably happy with the change, I presume.

I have no idea why men were offended, i'm guessing it was change and how people in general don't seem to like change and want to fight against it, I'm guessing some of it was they thought it was a blow to their ego, some of it was probably chauvinism wanting women to have to wear dresses and not pants, and since associated with wearing pants was the movement giving women more rights freedoms priviledges etcetera they were probably afraid they couldnt keep women at home anymore or control women as easily and really were probably afraid women wouldnt stay home and cook and clean and take care of them as much anymore as they may have previously, back to the men and their stomachs addage i'm guessing.

& some men probably didn't care or were perfectly happy with women being able to wear pants i'm guessing since there's always two sides to a story typically.

February 8, 2013 9:27 AM
By Anonymous (not verified)

reply to jamie:

why wouldn't you be a female jamie? that is a girls name i've always been taught. A female form of the boys name James. I've only ever met/heard of one or two boys who were stuck with that name and only seen a few on tv, even most of the people named jamie i've seen on tv have been female.

so i don't understand why it would cause your problems or why anyone would hassle you about it.

I don't know why anyone would hassle anyone about jesse/jessie or jessica either, but every single jessica i knew in elementary school and middle school told me that they'd been harrassed endlessly because of their name, and i read a book where a character named jesse was harassed because of her name supposedly being a boys name. that was strange because until a few tv actors appeared and i heard people talking about them like someone named jesse metcalf i think was one of them, i had never heard of a male jesse ever, its a girls name.

February 8, 2013 9:46 AM
By Anonymous (not verified)

as far as i know, Randi or Brandi or even Brandy can be given to either a boy or a girl. Randi is much more of a girls name though, while Randy is almost exclusively a boys name.

I bet you do get alot of fun teasing your cousin, most males named Randy i've met absolutely can't stand a girl being named similar to them, drives them crazy and makes them feel highly vulnerable and insecure. I hope you made sure your cousin knows you're just joking and not being hurtful.

I've met/known at least 2-3 girls with the name randi so its not too terribly rare.

Until I was 8 or 10 i had never so much as heard the name jessica much less met someone who had that name, i met a total of about 5-7 people with that name between that age and high school graduation. In college I probably met at least 5-7 more people with the name jessica.

Brittany i met/knew 3-4 when i was little all spelled that way. sometime in middle school i met a few other people with that name only spelled britney similar to how the celebrity singer ms. spears spells her first name, except this was back in the mid 90s several years b4 the world ever heard of her so it couldnt be because of her. after she became people i'm told that the other spelling exploded in popularity to the point of surpassing the traditional spelling and last i heard it had faded but was still even with the traditional spelling. that all said, since middle school i've only met or heard of 1 or 2 other people with that name.

I never so much as heard of anyone named Crystal until I was in college, now i know 2 sorta met/came across another, and met one with a k as the first letter instead of a c, and thats it 4 total.

not one megan til high school then tons and tons of them since.

a few courtneys over the years but not many, i think i even came across one guy with that name as well though. i felt bad for him, because as bad as i was teased about charles, charles is still a very masculine name so they had to watch television or be extremely creative to think of anything, i can't even imagine how bad it was for a courtney or the one male ashlee/ashley i met.

and thats the problem

girls with names like randi get complimented and boys with ashley get absolutely tortured.

February 8, 2013 10:30 AM
By Anonymous (not verified)

reply to monica:

exactly. i didn't know that was john wayne's first name off-stage, but Marion used to be a highly common Men's name in addition to being a popular name for a girl at the same time frame primarily in the south but a few northern girls were also named Marion. As a boys name it was popular north south east and west for at least 1 or 2 generations i believe.

I never heard of dana as a boys name until someone named dana carvey started appearing on tv in a silly looking turtle costume behaving strangely. b4 that i always thought it was a girls name exclusively.

and yes in the old days gloria gladys loretta etc were just about as likely to be found bestowed on a boy baby as on a girl baby, for quite some time it really didnt matter much. Girls were named Jo Joe or Joeseph or Joseph sometimes Josepha or Josephine or Josephina, but more often a Josephine or Josepha/Joseepha or Josephina were boys names then.

Joe which is a standard name nickname and slang for just any old guy now is extremely hillariously funny because until world war II or so when the name became associated with a cup of coffee somehow, until that point in history Joe was almost exclusively like/as in well over 95% exclusively a female name or a nickname usually for a variant of Joseph/Joeseph

JoJo, which is now considered female or a way to make Joe feminine, was originally a male nickname.

these things often seem to have a way of changing to the point of reversing themselves entirely, possibly just to make people realize exactly how foolish they are behaving. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work on very many people.

& I personally agree, a name is like a piece of clothing or any object or thing, it is only gender-specific if it is made to be that way, and not everyone will ever agree on that, so as soon as you make something or for that matter anything gender specific you are asking for trouble.

in some parts of the world i'm told they are even producing skirts, blouses, tights, hosiery, heeled shoes, and high heeled shoes for men again and are even in some places now producing bras panties matching sets and even lingerie marketed to men now.

dresses tunics robes sarongs/skirts/wraps etc were what everyone male or female wore for thousands of years without any distinction between the two genders in there clothing whatsoever unless a culture that only wore skirts and no upper body garmants suddenly decided to have the women cover their breasts, most cultures didnt though from what i can tell from what ive been told and learned from textbooks

so where the distinction in clothing developed or why or why it became so far apart and strictly enforced i don't understand, only that its annoying and stupid.

The only gender distinction i can possibly see is having seperate locker rooms because that makes common sense and in having seperate public bathrooms because statistics show once public bathrooms became prevalent and once they were seperated it dramatically reduced the occurence of rapes that were occuring when public bathrooms were shared between the two genders, just putting a wall in between and seperating into two spaces stopped alot of people either because since they were no longer presented with an opportunity right in front of them they no longer thought of the idea in the first place, because of the stigma that developed over entering the "other" gender's bathroom, because it took away the easy opportunity and made it more difficult, because it made it dramatically easier to be seen coming or going or in progress and thus get caught, etcetera. many different theories/reasons but the reason really doesnt matter, fact is rapes and rape attempts became dramatically fewer. so unless its the kind of restroom that is one person at a time only with a solid door to the room that has a working strong lock, i'll never support a unisex or co-ed public bathroom returning to prominence.

plus im told there are things women do in restrooms that men dont want or need to see or know about

plus ive been told about and when i was younger and with my mom and too young to safely be out of her sight or reach or go into the mens room on my own, ive seen the state of many womens bathrooms, when i was very little and everything in general was maintained alot better then today and some restrooms still had janitors or attendants or cleaning staff that regularly cleaned/checked them, women's restrooms were far superior to the men's ones and women's bathrooms were usually spotless even the toilets

later on i would see blood and urine everywhere on the toilets seats and floor in the stall, used sanitary pads on the floor just left there, toilet paper strewn all around the bathroom, and occaisionally a few drops of blood on the floor outside the stalls in the open part of the bathroom.

years later my mom and my sisters told me it had gotten to the point that women apparantly these days don't even sit down anymore that many of them just hover over the toilet even when not just urinating and then that other material ends up all over the toilet, toilet seat, floor stall walls and even sometimes at the height of a person's head on the tile wall behind the toilets.

i didnt believe them that it could possibly be that bad. then one time at college a men's restroom was closed and we were told to use a women's restroom until it was cleaned or whatever the issue was was taken care of and that we had to use the women's bathroom after making sure no one was in there first and having someone stand at the door to tell anyone that a male was in there. sure enough one or two of the stall in the women's bathroom was actually that bad.

no wonder lines form outside women's bathrooms, it probably takes 20 minutes to clean a stall sometimes just so you can use the toilet.

but yeah, other then lockerrooms and restrooms, i dont see much point in things being seperated by gender.

p.s. i dont know about the women, but fair warning because from what i have seen at least 1/4 of men don't wash their hands ever b4 leaving the restroom, 1/2 usually don't and as many as 3 out of every 4 men seen leaving a restroom at times don't wash their hands b4 they exit the restroom. I first noticed it starting when i was in highschool. most men then still washed every single time b4 they left the bathroom. unfortunately its gotten dramatically worse in the last 10 years or so, to where i would even say most men do not wash their hands any of the times they use the bathroom in a day, and may not even wash their hands at all except when they bathe or shower if then.

February 8, 2013 10:34 AM
By Anonymous (not verified)

"September 1, 2012 10:38 AM
By Anonymous (not verified)
I know some one who named all of thier boys girl names. One is named Stacey..when he got married the sign outside said
Congrats Stacey and Michaela."
-------------------------------
^that would have been hillarious because that could mean anything from a man and woman marrying, to two women marrying, to two men marrying, because both of those names can and are used to name both boys and girls. the prevailing public perception would likely have been that the sign was telling them two women were getting married, and that would have been totally wrong, which would have made it very funny.

February 8, 2013 10:51 AM
By Anonymous (not verified)

reply to Zoe Rhys:

thank you! I am so glad someone else agrees about the deliberate misspelling of names, i can't stand it. call a boy a girl or a girl a boy if you like buy dont change kristen to kirsten just because its bestowed on a boy instead of a girl or replace the c starting a name with a k just because its bestowed on a girl instead of a boy etcetera.

and i never knew any boys were named kristin/kristen or sasha, that's interesting.

i never even heard the name sasha b4 once in my whole life until the salt lake city olympics in 2002 when there was the wonderful figure skater named sasha cohen. that name is so pretty an beautiful and I think its a wonderful name.

The male who has that name with a different spelling detracts from that name slightly but not because hes a boy with that name but because of how he behaves, but mostly i try to pretend i've never heard of him and that he doesn't really exist and change the channel anytime he is mentioned or appears on television then its ok and i can still remember how pretty and great the name is and that he is just someone who behaves poorly and badly and that it reflects on him and his character and not on the name itself any at all and that every name has someone carrying the name who doesn't behave well.

That being said, some names seem to have ALOT of people with the name who are mean, rude, etcetera.

Josh/Joshua and Michael/Mike being two in particular because nearly every single person I have ever met with either one of those two very popular boys names has acted very snobby and conceited and exceptionally devious rude & mean and will try to undermine everything and everyone else around them in absolutely any way they possibly can and will try to do so in ways that can't be traced back to them by any adult or authority figure without alot of investigation or effort.

One Thomas I met in elementary school was nearly as bad and very nearly ruined me on that name permanently because for years he was the only thomas id ever met or heard about other then the wendy's founder with thomas as a surname. but then i met a few nice thomases and realized he was just a bad apple in the bunch.

most people i've met like or are neutral towards the name Charles. a small handful though have had very terrible experiences with people named Charles where they encountered some very egostical and/or abusive people with the name.

March 30, 2013 4:00 PM
By Reynaldo Tinajero (not verified)

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